Title: The Hidden War
Subtitle: A Discussion on Spiritual Warfare, History, and Awakening
Author: Tucker Carlson

1. About This Transcript

This book is an automated transcription, not a written work by the speaker.

The text that follows was generated automatically from the captions of the video "Ex-Freemason: Possessed Politicians, Demonic Rituals for Power, Secret Societies, and the Occult" by Tucker Carlson. Source: the original video

The words are the speaker's own, captured from the video. The chapter divisions, titles, punctuation, and any formatting are editorial aids added to make the spoken talk readable — they were not written or reviewed by the speaker. Any errors or awkward phrasings are artifacts of automatic transcription, and should be weighed against the original recording rather than attributed to the speaker.

2. The Invisible Battlefield

Host: Sean, thanks for doing this. It dawned on me the other day, years after it dawned on you, that there are no secular leaders of anything and that people pose as science-based and non-religious, but everyone who has power in the world is religious. I have noticed they just have different religions. You’ve been on this for a very long time. So let’s just start as big as we can. What’s the purpose of communing with the supernatural for leaders? Why do leaders do it?

Guest: I think there was some—maybe this is a quote or someone said this to me. There are non-powerful people who are Freemasons, but there are no powerful people who are not Freemasons.

Host: Freemasons.

Guest: If you think about the nature of an initiatory group that’s been around in its current form for a few hundred years since the 1700s in the UK and likewise in France, but they say its origin precedes it to the Knights Templar, who were a very powerful order. As we know from my understanding of the Templars, it’s not the idea of nine knights showing up in the Middle East during the Crusades to guard the roads. It was really more about excavating under the temple of Solomon.

Host: Yes, that was what they were interested in—where the ancient...

Guest: The well of souls.

Host: The well of souls, the ancient texts, the things that were written into grimoires and hidden incantations, things that you could basically call upon the spiritual realm because that’s the lore of King Solomon. King Solomon, as we remember from the Bible, he had wisdom and he was a powerful ruler over what was then Israel.

Guest: Richest man in the world.

Host: Yeah. Well, he had the gold, but he had the power because he could call upon what they call jinn, genies, and he could command them with his ring, the ring of Solomon, the ring of power. And the real lore of masonry was that he had this builder Hiram who architected the temple of Solomon, but they had jinn that they called upon to actually do the work and to build it. Now, that’s all metaphor.

Guest: And what are jinn?

Host: Genies, what we would call genies in Aladdin’s lamp. When I went to Iran the first time it was out of curiosity, but I went to go meet with some of these guys that communicate to them, to the other side, and I would talk to them about what’s going on in the world. They would say, "Yeah, the jinn in Islamic lore is very similar to angels and demons or the watchers in the book of Enoch. They’re both dark and light. Some serve God, some serve the dark side." And so the idea of the power of Solomon was to be able to have a relationship and mastery. Some people say that he actually got overwhelmed by the power and that’s why he fell. He ended up with the love affair that sort of sank his rulership.

It’s a very dangerous gambit once you start communing with that side. But I believe all the initiatory paths—Freemasonry is just one of them, the most famous one—lead you to that realm, to that understanding that there are spiritual forces invisible to us that are working through people in this world. And just because someone is a so-called Christian doesn’t mean they’re serving God. And just because someone is a Muslim doesn’t mean they’re serving the devil. It’s the same across the entire planet: there are forces of dark and light working through every religion, every people, even through our own lifetime, our own souls. At any point when you grow up in Hollywood or whatnot, you realize it does seem that people can sell their souls and maybe not even be aware of it. Because to me, Satanism isn’t just incantations. It can be blood sacrifices and rituals. It can also just be worship of the material realm.

Host: Yes.

Guest: Right. So when you get into that realm of, "Oh, I want power, I want worldly power," I think that’s the satanic path. They don’t think of it as such. But materialism at its heart is worship of the earth. And that’s why people talk about the earth as kind of Lucifer’s domain, right? Because if you start worshiping money and yourself, your own ego, well, you’ve lost sight of the transcendent power of God.

Host: There’s no question about that. There’s no question. And I think all of us experienced that in our own lives. But just to go back to what you initially said about the Masons.

Guest: So we’re about 100 feet from a Masonic Lodge. They’re all over rural America. They’re kind of a vestige of the past. This is how I think of them.

Host: Bunch of elderly guys.

Guest: With ceremonial swords.

Guest: Tell stories. I have one.

Host: You have one.

Guest: I have one right over there from that lodge.

Host: You don’t think of them as a threat or even a meaningful player in current events. But I should say I don’t know much about it. I don’t at all. You joined the Masons. Why did you do that and what was it like?

Guest: So it was a journey of initiation, I think, that I was going through in that time, right out of college. Because in my college years I started getting deep into studying history, and even Procopius was writing the history of Justinian, the Roman emperor, Byzantine emperor, and he described him as a shape-shifting demon basically in that book, The Secret History, and that was buried for a long time. And again, there are all types of histories: King James was—it’s James’ Bible, but he also wrote a demonology book, right? This was the way the world was perceived and understood for centuries, as we know.

Host: As a battleground between dark and light.

Guest: Yeah. I mean, as forces that were unseen. Socrates talked about his daimonion—his genius.

Speaker: In the old world, there’s a theory that when Homer is writing about the Iliad and all these different gods having a play in human life, a lot of people believe that we were in communication more readily with beings. Unseen beings. And it may have been a real factor in our consciousness back then. And then we obviously get to this place of the enlightenment when all that becomes relegated and we say, "Oh, that’s all hocus pocus and not real. We can only focus on the physical realm." But you can’t understand how life begins through the physical realm alone. You can’t understand how the universe is formed.

Response: Right. I mean, what? Okay, how does a big bang start? It just happens. Okay.

Speaker: Spontaneous.

Response: You know, time travel. I mean, how does it happen? How does it actually begin? Exactly from what? And how does life begin?

Speaker: I think a lot of the materialists—you could say people like Darwin and whatnot—are essentially serving the dark side because they’re saying there’s nothing outside the material realm, that this is all that exists and everything. Well, actually all we’re interfacing with is our own minds.

Response: Our own perceptions.

Speaker: And so when they want us to believe a very simplified version of reality—spontaneous evolution, random evolution, random changes—take away anything spiritual. I think that serves the dark side in a sense because it now elevates our own egos. It makes us the progenitors of this, and we are the greatest thing in the universe. And we can get into that later, but that then serves a transhuman agenda that it’s all about perfecting ourselves through the physical plane of genetics, right? Genetic tampering and whatnot. You try to basically take the spiritual origin impulse of God creating this universe out of the story. That’s what the enlightenment did in many ways. But you can’t take it out because we instinctively, as souls that we are in human form, have this curiosity and this desire to know, "Okay, where did I come from?" Like, my soul didn’t just spontaneously appear. How do I have consciousness? Where does consciousness originate from? Just from our brains? Well, I think we’re understanding that our brains are more receivers, almost like computers that can receive the internet that’s around us. That’s the way that we function more in that way. And that’s why people have near-death experiences or they have out-of-body experiences. And the CIA does this kind of stuff—astral projection—and they can see things outside of their physical body that you can’t say, "Well, your brain knew it." You have all kinds of cases and stories of this. People who are literally on a hospital bed and they can perceive things in the next room. So consciousness transcends our brain, right? And that indicates again a spiritual reality that a lot of mainstream science wants us to ignore. But I was looking at history and saying, "No, we’ve always had this impulse to see a spiritual reality," or what Plato calls the ideational realm, the world of ideals, before we get to the material realm. So, let’s not try to ignore that.

Host: You know what's rare these days? A company that actually makes things here in the US, not just designed here or assembled here. Actually manufactured here start to finish in the United States. Brooklyn Bedding builds every mattress in their factory in Arizona. Not in the Far East. In Arizona, no middlemen, no cutting corners, no outsourcing to save a buck. The founders started with nothing. No degree, no corporate backing. Just learned the craft, built a factory, created a product that actually works. That's the American story. We ought to support it and we do. And here we love the Thermo Balance mattress collection. It's made a huge difference in the quality of the sleep of a lot of people who work here. No more waking up hot in the middle of the night thanks to their cooling technology. Your back feels better when you wake up. They're endorsed, in fact, by the American Chiropractic Association. So, it's not just marketing, it's real. They also give you 120 nights to try it out. That's a lot. If you don't love it, they take it back or swap it out. No hassle. That's how confident they are. Visit brooklynbedding.com, use the promo code Tucker at checkout for 30% off sitewide. This offer not available anywhere else.

Guest: So, I would study these things and I ended up meeting this guy who was himself a Mason. He was a Jersey kid who was my age and we started exploring these haunted places. New Jersey is notorious for being haunted. They have a whole magazine called Haunted NJ. And not just Jersey, but let's say the East Coast.

Host: But especially New Jersey.

Guest: Especially New Jersey. They got some history there. I don't know what it is. And so he was exploring these places like Greystone, which was a massive mental hospital. Woody Guthrie was there, for example, and you saw it in the recent Bob Dylan movie. He goes and visits Guthrie at the Greystone Mental Hospital. This place was about 100 years old. It was one of the biggest mental hospitals in the country. It was the biggest foundation when they built it until they built the Pentagon. It was massive. We went to this place at night and even though it was shut down, it was still—the lights were still on and it's about five or six stories tall and underground there's tunnels and passages that go on for miles around. So we would go explore this place at night and let's just say that high strangeness ensued.

Host: It's an abandoned mental hospital in New Jersey.

Guest: Yeah. It's an abandoned mental hospital in Jersey. And so from the first time that we went there and then went back, each time it would just—different things would reveal themselves to me in a way that I made a film about it, Greystone Park, to kind of symbolize the way that fear operates. I believe that our frequency attracts forces. And so when you go into a place like that where thousands of people have died, they had like a mass grave basically of thousands of people that had died there over the course of a hundred years.

Guest: There's been a lot of abuse, and I think also people go into this place who are themselves—we call them mentally ill—but a lot of them, I think, were demon-possessed.

Host: Yes.

Guest: And so imagine it's now becoming a place of very dark energy.

Host: Hard to imagine anything darker than that.

Guest: Right. Yeah. And so what we saw was indications, paraphernalia, books, things like this left behind of satanic rituals, like people would go there and perform rituals to draw upon the energy. And why would someone do that? Well, so this gets into the nature of this realm, right? If we again understand the material realm is what we see and what we interact with, what we think we're interacting with, but as we know at heart, it's just all energy. Like this table is moving particles. Our being is moving particles, moving atoms. We're energetic bodies that appear to be fixed, but actually, as we know, we're changing every second, every day. Our cells are dying and being reborn, our energy body is moving. And so the spiritual traditions have always understood that because they didn't call it necessarily energy, but prana and life force, breath. Like that's the origin of creation: something in spirit is moving through us into this container, this vessel that appears fixed. But again, as we know, it's changing. That's why we don't look the same every day, even if it's just slight differences. And as you know, you can see in people—you can just kind of see it sometimes. Like you can see when someone's energetically drained. You can see when someone's energy is high and they're vibrant.

Host: Instantly.

Guest: Mhm. So this is all the energetic nature of reality. So if we are talking about a world that also is energetic and alive, and then you have geometry—let's say certain structures trap energy more than others. Right, I mean if you're outdoors, and we can just experience it. You're out in nature, you're in a forest. The trees are going to have certain energy, it's going to move. You know, maybe like they'll, in the course, they are living beings, so they'll live their life and die. And that's why some forests are called haunted forests or darker places. And sometimes you'll have historically, places where there'll be gatherings of people to practice, since the pagan times, to practice different rituals, and sometimes you'll feel the energy of that—like, oh, this is a place where there's a gathering that takes place and a certain energy gets created there. Same way as a building. I mean, that's what a haunted house is, right? If you're in a house and someone gets murdered, it's going to have a heavier energy because it hasn't—unless you come and bless it and really, I don't know, do the right energy through to let it pass. To let the souls go. And I had that experience with one of the haunted places I went to. It was a place that was notorious. It was next to a mental hospital where kids were housed, and this was upstate New York. This was different from Greystone. In that house next to the mental hospital for kids, the legend has it that a priest was molesting these kids at that property and actually killing some of the kids and doing black magic. In that house, I saw people get possessed. We heard the sounds of hell coming from—I mean, it's hard to imagine that this is what we experienced. We'd be upstairs and all of a sudden we'd hear howling of dogs and laughter of demonic laughter and things like this echoing through the house. So we went back multiple times and we blessed the house, and the final time really felt a purging of energy, and the house burned down on its own within about a month or two. So that's the kind of thing we talk about, the energy that gets trapped in places until you come with higher frequency of blessing a place and clearing the energy. So again, we're talking of a battle of dark and light, those forces that draw upon dark energy. Because they can then invoke spirit—let's say darker spirits—that hook into that. If everything is, let's say, frequency, fear—things that are horrific, horror films play into the psychology, right? It's like Freddy Krueger. He preys upon—he's a dream demon. He infects people with fear. And we think about how like demons are what? They're scary. They're monstrous. They're shadows. They're things that create fear in us. And then it seems to be like the frequency match almost.

Host: Do you think that's one of the reasons that Jesus so often tells his disciples not to be afraid?

Guest: Yes, that's exactly right. So remember when Jesus casts out the demons, he sends them into the swine. He's like, "Yeah, get them out. Get out of the vessel and they go and kill themselves." Because a lot of the demonic—I mean, again there's different frequency of demonic energy. There's madness. A lot of psychosis we are experiencing in this country, I think, connects to it. A lot of it ties into alcohol and drugs. That's lowering people's frequency. It's one thing to have a glass or two, but as we know, a lot of alcohol, what does it do? It takes us out of our right mind.

In my experience of seeing people get possessed, it's pretty much like seeing someone when someone's out of blackout drunk. We've all seen it. Someone's coked up or out of their mind on alcohol, and they behave erratically, irrationally, they get aggressive, they get mean, or they start laughing hysterically, and the next day they may not remember anything. It's exactly what possession is, because when you see someone get possessed, it's like a flip of a switch. They go from someone you can look in the eyes and see what they are to just checked out. I've seen people screaming. I've seen people laughing maniacally. I've seen just checking out, like just staring blankly. But you know it, you just know that this person's not in their right mind.

Host: Yes.

Guest: The key is to try to bring the light back, breathe, bring good energy back, raise the frequency so they can come back to their selves. So what I would say this battle is between the darkness that again feeds on that fear, that lower vibrational psyche of not being in our right mind, not being in our higher selves, not being connected to our spirit, our higher to God, basically. Spirit that is always available, but the dark side wants to lower that frequency to a place that would be closer to hell. What we have always described as hell—a place of torture, of suffering, pain, place of the dead.

Host: Yeah. Well, even worse than death, right? Death is one thing. Go below that, and it's like that's the level of self-destruction like you said with the pigs, self-destructiveness. So, this is the battle, and again, if the dark side has waged war on mankind, if we believe—and this is not just Christian tradition, this is like a lot of story there is—

Guest: Yeah, a lot of stories around the world have talked about this, that there's something that's waging war on mankind. They want possession of the soul, they want us to check out, to surrender. To check out, say hand over control of the vehicle. And that seems to be the real battle. Are we autonomous beings? We have control of our vehicles. We all experienced this during COVID. You know, all this seems so far out, but during COVID we actively saw people checked out from fear, like dead bodies, like dead things, putting on masks so they can't even really breathe. You can't in a court of law speak if you've got a mask on. So you don't have any say. So when you put a mask on, you're basically taking away your power to speak and to breathe. So you're like a dead thing now. And then beyond that we saw the hysteria that came with it, from fear. All that fear around, "You're infected, you might be infected, this person could be infected, you didn't get your shot, you better stay away, you can't come to the family gathering, you can't come into my establishment." And if you're in California—I left the state because it was like, "I can get a fake vaccine card, but I don't want to engage with people that are mandating this." What kind of hysteria? What kind of madness is this? So we've all experienced that kind of possession. Not like some people personally experienced it and then said, "Wait a minute, I was in fear and I've woken up," and others just saw it and said, "It's like everyone's possessed all of a sudden by this fear."

So what's in your toothpaste? If you're using the brand you grew up with, you probably don't want to know. The ingredients likely include fluoride, SLS, glycerin, foaming agents. It's a chemical cocktail. Van Man's toothpaste is different. Their miracle toothpowder is changing everything and people are ditching traditional toothpaste filled with chemicals by the thousands. Van Man's toothpowder uses ingredients with the same mineral structure as your teeth that remineralizes them and strengthens your enamel naturally. No fluoride at all and totally edible. You could put it on toast. Not that you'd want to, but you could. People who use it report whiter teeth, less plaque. They wake up without that gross film on their gums. And here's the amazing part. Vivid dreams are back. You dream clearly when you stop coating your mouth in fluoride every night. Did you know that? Pretty amazing.

Tells you a lot. So, make the switch. Visit vanman.shop/tucker. Use the code Tucker for 15% off your first order. vanman.shop/tucker. Use the code Tucker. 15% off. Van Man. Real ingredients. Zero exceptions.

Host: So the Masons practice a religion. How would you describe what masonry is?

Guest: Well, I mean masonry is based in the Old Testament. Most of the Masons I know are Christian, but again, I look at it as an initiatory path. So I don't look at it as Masons are evil. What I experienced was that there's... I'll put it like this. The first night that I went there...

Host: Where was this?

Guest: The Cornerstone Lodge in New York, which is a very famous lodge. People like Jay-Z go there and whatnot.

Host: Jay-Z's amazing.

Guest: From my understanding, he was with that lodge as well, but higher than I was. But the point is that it's an initiation that... what I felt was being observed and watched. And I know it was watched because after doing the first degree initiation where you get the blindfold and the noose and all this stuff is online—I'm not revealing some secrets—all the phrases and things, the geometry of it where you have to walk certain directions and points and say certain things, all that's online now. It's public. But when you perform it ritualistically, like a play, there are other forces that are not human that are engaging in the experience. And I know that because when I was leaving the lodge that night with my friend, we got a phone call and it was an unknown number and this sort of husky voice was on the phone and he was like, "How was the meeting?" And I was like, "It's an interesting game you guys have going here." And it's like, "Mhm." And we were just talking a bit, saying a lot of things that were like biblical—40 days in the cave, some stuff that I didn't understand—but I knew that they were watching me because I was walking back to my apartment in New York. And I'm like, "Oh, so you're watching me." He's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Okay, what am I doing?" He's like, "You're walking." So I stopped walking. And I'm like, "Oh, yeah." He's like, "Yeah, you stopped walking." And I was like, "Okay, it could be a guess, but let's just continue the conversation." I went upstairs and I had a gray shirt on and black pants, and after that I started recording.

Speaker 1: The conversation—the audio did not record, subsequently only the video recorded—but as I was recording this, basically it was this man’s voice, and then it would be a woman that would take over. It was like two voices: one as a man, one as a woman. And then she basically said stop recording, and I didn’t stop. I would stop for a minute, then I turned it back on. And I had at that time a cross on—sorry, it was not a cross, it was an Islamic sword that I had as a necklace. And so I was taking my shirt off, and she’s like, “Put your shirt back on.” And I was like, “Oh, you don’t like this symbol or what’s wrong?” And it was like, “Put your shirt back on.” And we just continued to talk. But there were a few things that I remember distinctly, including her saying, “I’ll leave you with this. You’re wearing a gray shirt with black pants.” So something had been observing me that night. And they continued to talk with me, and it was essentially they texted me thereafter, and it went on for an hour or so off and on. My friend who took me there got really sick to his stomach. He was vomiting actually after that during that same time that I was on the phone, and he really was physically out of it. And so I was conversing with these things for about an hour. And again, a lot of it was about the fallen angels, because this goes back to the jinn, the unseen world. Remember, the book of Enoch talks about this—that the fall basically is not just Lucifer’s, it’s Lucifer and the—what was it? The 300? A lot of it had to do with the origin of how the angels fell in love with human women. That’s the story of Enoch: they fell in love with human women, they had children.

Speaker 2: The Nephilim.

Speaker 1: Nephilim, the fallen ones. And this whole bloodline war basically of fallen angels having children with human women and becoming like the great leaders of old, the men of renown.

Speaker 2: Exactly.

Speaker 1: The leaders of the military and the emperors or kings of the time, royal bloodlines. So all this came up that night.

Speaker 2: What’s interesting is if you bring up that story from Enoch—and it’s alluded to in Genesis 6 as well—people look at you like that’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard. Where does that come from? Is that like a David Icke concept or something? But then if you just assess it non-emotionally…

Speaker 1: That’s pretty much every religion tells that story, including Christianity. Jesus is the product of spirit and a human woman, God and Mary. So the Greek myths are the same.

Speaker 2: Alexander was—his mother said that Zeus came to her.

Speaker 1: Exactly.

Speaker 2: So I’m not—yeah. I mean that’s not proof, but it’s certainly an indication. This is not like a crazy new theory that David Icke thought up.

Speaker 1: Not at all. And that's why I always say—

Speaker 2: The basis of every religion.

Speaker 1: Yeah. That's why people want you to think about Icke as the crazy guy. But that's why I studied history, because I wanted to say no, Icke is just picking up on old traditions and he's just listening to people that are telling him stories.

Speaker 2: I think you can hear that story in any church in the United States every Sunday.

Speaker 1: Exactly. So it's not conceptually a departure from what people have thought for thousands of years, that there is the physical reality of actors from the spiritual realm impregnating human women.

Speaker 2: Right. Right. And going again, even the Anunnaki texts of the Sumerians before, which predate the Old Testament, talk about exactly this thing about the Anunnaki sky gods creating the first humans as their workers. And again, the flood story mythology comes from that.

Speaker 1: God was so displeased by the behavior of the Nephilim that he destroyed the world.

Speaker 2: And their behavior that he specifically called out was violence.

Speaker 1: Right. And eating of humans. The Nephilim did, remember?

Speaker 2: Really?

Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. The giants ate the humans. Do you remember?

Speaker 2: That's in the book of Enoch.

Speaker 1: It's in one of them. It's definitely Enoch then, because that was the issue, that the giants were eating people. And so this then takes us to the very present day of the lore around demons drinking human blood or demon-possessed humans drinking human blood, Dracula mythology.

Speaker 2: This is all drawn upon the old world. But when Hunter S. Thompson talks about adrenochrome and people say, "Oh, he made that up." I go, "Yeah, except I talked to a military intelligence guy who goes, 'Adrenochrome is real because it comes across our messaging boards all the time.'" Adrenochrome is being trafficked into the country.

Speaker 1: So adrenochrome is a compound from the human adrenal gland. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: Yeah. My understanding is it's like an adrenaline. Basically, it's adrenaline that gets secreted from anxiety, stress, fear. And it's something specifically that is being used as a drug, or is it demonic food? I don't know. It's not something that I've personally experienced, but it's like we're connecting the ancient world to the modern world and it seems to be if it's one long thread we can't just ignore that. Well, here's something that thieves count on. Security cameras usually stop where Wi-Fi stops. Makes sense. So if you got a barn, a job site, equipment parked outside a long driveway, criminals know there's a good chance that nobody is watching this because there's no Wi-Fi. And that's why we like Defend by Tacticam. It's a new sponsor of this show. Defense cameras don't run on Wi-Fi. They run on cellular just like your phones. They work everywhere. If you’ve got cell signal, you’ve got security. Middle of nowhere, edge of your property, construction site, wherever you need it. You don’t need Wi-Fi. It’s a big difference. And you can see why it matters. So we use these cameras in places where Wi-Fi doesn’t reach. The setup is super simple. You mount the camera, open the Defend app, and you are live. You get clear footage, night vision, alerts sent right to your phone. It’s great for construction sites, ranches, farms, or anyone with a property that stretches beyond a router. And here’s something we really appreciate. Defend does not sell your data. Not to tech companies, not to advertisers, not to China, no one. Your footage belongs to you. And that’s big. Plans start at about five bucks a month. No contract. Cancel anytime. Visit defendellcam.com.

Guest: It’s very interesting to me that some of the main themes throughout human history, blood being the life force, the spirit,

Host: The magic and the blood, right?

Guest: The magic and the blood. Genetics

Host: Bloodline.

Guest: These were full-blown preoccupations for every civilization before 1945, and they’ve just been eliminated from public conversation.

Host: By media.

Guest: But media is the greatest magician of all, right? I mean, that’s so interesting that you mentioned '45. Obviously, that’s the end of the Second World War. British broadcasting was originally part of British intelligence. Like, it was always, they understood that propaganda was key. That was first world war effort bringing us into the first world war, getting us involved. And then obviously the second world war the same. There was a huge amount of propaganda that was put out for it. But then we adopted those same techniques post-45, I would say, with the various radio projects, whether it was from radio to television. The same concept. A lot of the guys that were intelligence OSS officers or part of the OSS then became executives and whatnot for the original TV channels, which at the time was like four—ABC, CBS, PBS. So it was very important to send out messaging, and then likewise with radio it was the same thing. It was like, okay, first radio was used for information before television, but then radio became the music, and so it became like top 40. What was it, the top 40 project? Essentially it was like, let’s figure out how to basically condition people using music, and it’s no longer going to be symphonic—long symphonic pieces of music—it’s going to be short three minutes or less of something that can hook people in.

Host: Cultural propaganda.

Guest: Culturally propagandize over and over. Hypnotize people essentially. I mean, that’s what music does. Think about when we engage with—it's so interesting engaging with young people now and seeing how much, like when I was a kid, hip-hop was kind of coming on in the ’90s. But nowadays it’s like all those lyrics, a lot of the more debasing lyrics, let’s say, how do you end up with an OnlyFans culture? It starts with the lyrics that are put out through hip-hop music that's propagated to every young kid across the country, and then that becomes part of the cultural conditioning, languaging all these things. So I think music is one of the most important magical tools that is used to obviously influence culture, and then obviously not just music—film, and nowadays with streaming, it's putting people into hypnotic states for hours on end when you stream things into the consciousness.

Host: Yeah. Social media are hypnotic, noticed, and very addictive.

Guest: TikTok especially. I mean, people literally just fall asleep to it. You know, it's scrolling and streaming.

Host: So part of the point of the propaganda effort is not just to highlight lies, but to prevent people from considering things in full context or seeing the whole picture, eliminating certain important themes from the public conversation.

Guest: Anything supernatural would fall into that. Blood and genetics would also be part of that.

Host: But the people who run the world never stopped paying attention to the supernatural, to blood and genetics, did they?

Guest: No, I don't think so. I mean from my experience and again I have a limited experience of it, but you talk to some of these families and I mean first of all in the UK you feel it especially in England, the aristocratic culture.

Host: The mindset to this day they still have a king, you know.

Guest: Yes.

Host: Okay. You know, they still have the aristocracy and the bloodline families and whatnot, and their traditions. And then you think about like some of these families talk about they can trace their ancestry back to the Roman Empire or even before sometimes. But again it's just whether or not you're aware of it. I think some families more so than others. The families that are more aware of it, I think, have a certain conditioning process that some people talk about when it comes to the pedophilia. I think that's more normalized. It's kind of part of the boarding school culture.

Guest: Often times that was my sense of it when I was at Oxford for two terms, and hanging out with some people, some families that are more known than others, and they would tell me the boarding school culture was very... you could say homosexual, and that kind of dates back in terms of the ideology to Rome and Greece. Remember the idea of passing on wisdom from the older male to the younger male, and so it becomes acceptable.

Host: And then you do hear these things about a lot of these families that are like practicing pedophilia with their own kids, and they look at it almost like a training process because it dissociates. So traumatic abuse of a young person dissociates them, makes them able to then… You could argue like the monarch butterfly that's a symbol. The monarch is often described as a symbol of childhood programming. So basically, when you are traumatized so young, you dissociate, you now have greater ability to act without moral compunction, without even knowing your own limits, your own self.

Host: You basically have broken all those barriers.

Guest: Well, you do have to ask questions about a system that sends its sons to boarding school at seven or eight years old.

Host: Or even younger sometimes.

Guest: Or even younger. Yeah. And my grandfather went at that kind of age, and it wasn't good for him. I don’t know why you would do that, but it has something to do with breaking down normal qualities in a young man. I’m not saying it’s a pedestal thing, but it does have to do with abuse. Abuse has many forms. There’s the physical, there’s the verbal.

Host: The sexual is just usually the one that no one wants to talk about.

Guest: No, that’s right. But it obviously occurs.

Host: So, okay. So you—how long were you a Mason?

Guest: I mean, it’s not like you ever established like, “I’m going to meetings.” No, I wanted to initiate to three degrees. I entered.

Host: And in between—by the way, okay, so this is why I know this gets far out—but like in between, the initiation—the first degree and the third degree—in that time period, I would get phone calls from 666 numbers all the time. “6666, we want your soul.” Like just demonic voices. “We want your soul.” That’s kind of nonsense.

Host: So Satan called your cell?

Guest: I mean, I don’t know if it was Satan or the CIA, but someone with a 666 number that sounded satanic called my cell and would be like, “We want your soul.” And I would just laugh and be like, “Okay.” I mean, it’s not mine to give. My soul belongs to God. So I don’t know what you’re talking about. I can’t help you.

Host: I think I’m jumpier than you, because if I was in between degrees in the Masons and Satan started calling me, I would drop out.

Guest: Well, it’s not about dropping out or not. It’s about initiating—as I said, it’s an initiating and understanding of the world. And that’s why I believe the checkerboard is very real. Like the way it’s designed is the checkerboard on the floor. It’s black and white. Not all Satanists are evil. I do believe that there’s the path of light and there’s a path of dark. They want to assess who you are. And as I say “they,” I mean a higher realm wants to know what you are. So I believe the people that join who choose a darker side—I think I’ve seen it. They basically are willing to do anything. They are willing to drink the blood. They’re willing to make the oath essentially to the dark because they just want power. And if they know that your soul isn’t wired that way, you don’t end up on the satanic path. So again, a lot of these were just kind of tests. I felt like they were just kind of tests.

Guest: I got a call from a Zazel one time. Zazel is the angel of death, right? As a Zazel calls, and then like a day or two later, my grandmother passed away.

Host: Wait, the angel of death called yourself?

Guest: Yeah. It basically identified itself as a Zazel.

Host: What did you say?

Guest: No, I just I knew what a Zazel was. So I knew a spirit of death was around. And then, like I said, my grandmother passed like I think within one or two days of that call. So I was like, “Wow.” Okay.

Host: What did the angel of death say on the phone?

Guest: It wasn’t—I don’t remember, like again it was not like I remember specifically an announcement of something. It was just more like in that time period, I was getting so many calls from these things like wanting my soul. And sometimes it was witches cackling, like come play with us, like come join us. Sometimes it was—one time, and it’s funny, I played this on Alex Jones' show actually back in 2012, it was a call from again 666 and they were doing Baal worship. They were like calling on Baal, and they were like—it sounded like they were doing a ritual, these demonic voices, like “Baal la,” they’re doing a ritual on this phone call. So it was almost like they were trying to engage my energy for what they were doing.

You see that goes back to the question around the dark side wants more energy because again it’s disconnected from God. Well, is it disconnected? Let’s just say they’re more disconnected. I don’t think anything is disconnected from God. My perception is it’s all God’s universe. So I don’t think you can divorce yourself from the universe. But let’s just say their frequency is lower. So they’re drawing upon higher vibrational energy to try to draw us down. That’s the battle, right? It’s like how many of those of the light can we bring to the dark? How many can we sink to our level? Or if they can’t, they stopped after 2012. After my last degree of initiation and after 2012, I never got calls again. So I just felt like it was this kind of testing phase and it’s like okay you don’t belong to us. Who knows maybe they’ve taken new forms. Not saying everything like life is obviously full of challenges. So I think the dark can manifest in different ways, but for me it was a very overt confrontation with something that people would think is a fairy tale until you’ve lived it.

Host: Do you think other people at the lodge, the Cornerstone Lodge in New York, were having similar experiences?

Guest: Well, I know the person I went with did, but some of the other guys that I knew, I don’t think anything changed in their life. We all have different paths, right? My path was frankly initiatory. I wanted to explore these things. I went all the way to Iran just to talk to guys that were trying to understand how the world is working.

Host: What drove you?

Guest: Just...

Host: Well, you grew up in a materialistic society in Southern California where the possibility of this stuff was not discussed.

Guest: No. My dad took me to India and Tibet when I was 10. We went to the Himalayas and went to visit Tibetan monasteries. We went to the Potala Palace, and they depict demons and stuff very overtly in the iconography. If you look at the artwork of Tibet, Nepal, the Buddhist cultures, and even Hindus, they understand that there’s demons and angels—well, they wouldn’t call it angels, I guess, but like demigods, right? I mean, they would describe demigods, more angelic, more divine powerful beings, and then you see the dark faces of the demonic realm. They look at everything as different temptation. So it’s like you have to get comfortable. You have to face the demon. You can’t hide it—that’s when it gets scarier. Just like in a horror film, it’s always scarier when you don’t know where the monster is. Once you can face the monster, you take away its power. Going back to the dream demon, Freddy Krueger, it’s like I take my power back. I’m not afraid of you anymore. That’s the only way to defeat the monster.

Host: I believe that. Fear and hate also feed the demons.

Guest: Yeah. Well, my dad made a whole film, Natural Born Killers, that is kind of about this thing. It’s pretty interesting. I mean, those killers—if you watch it as two demon-possessed people, which is really what they are—the main characters, Mickey, he’s been abused by his father, who kills himself. He’s been physically abused by his father. The Juliet Lewis character has been sexually abused by her father. And it’s all this kind of chaotic American media glorification of these two serial killers, but they’re going through their journey of hell, basically like a hellscape, until they find that love kills the demon, right? That’s their salvation, is through love. But if you watch the movie, it’s just like two demon-possessed people. It’s pretty interesting.

Okay. So, if we think that hate and fear feed dark forces, spiritual forces, unconscious hate, I think...

3. The Imperial Deal

Host: There's healthy. We hate certain things that we find intolerable. But if we hate the person, if we demonize the person, right, that's feeding the...

Guest: Wanting to hurt other people, having malice toward others.

Host: Yeah, exactly.

Guest: And then fear, being terrorized.

Host: If those are both spiritual foods for demons, how should we understand our government's concerted effort over many years to make us terrified and hateful? Not just the government, media with it, right? Like media and government working hand in hand. I mean, those kind of are the messages really. There's someone...

Guest: You need to be afraid of and there's someone you should hate. You're required to hate.

Host: Well, think about the nature of the Masonic lodges. There's the red lodge and the blue lodge.

Guest: I don't know anything.

Host: Yeah. So, that's the famous like there's the blue lodge which is more like the French ancestry. The Scottish right is the red lodge. And so think about like the bloods and crips, the Democrats and the Republicans as red and blue.

Guest: Also the bloods and the crips.

Host: So this whole idea of what people articulate as two wings of the same bird, ultimately it's like both are there to govern your mentality, govern your mind, right? So it's like do we want more or less? Republicans are supposed to be more libertarian, more constitutional, more or less, but they tend to just end up spending as much as the blue team. Both obviously are dependent on the same Federal Reserve system, right? So, you could say we've been captured by the Fed, by this debt slavery, this debt slave Federal Reserve system since 1913, which is again right around the time that, as we know, the income tax came in.

Guest: Totally unconstitutional. And then also the First World War begins and the British bring us into their empire more formally, because before that we were not supposed to be part of the European game. We focused on the Monroe Doctrine, which was about focusing on our hemisphere, bringing the republic as a model for this region and protecting this region from the imperialists of Europe, be it French or British. I mean, remember, during the Civil War, Mexico had a coup by the French and the British Empire actually couped the Mexican government right around the same time they were trying to install their puppet there.

Guest: It didn't work out. But Mexico then, again, there's all kinds of puppeteering that goes on through the different forces financially. So that's really, I think, the key is America wanting to be a republic independent of the European empires. With the First World War, Wilson made a huge decision which I think was a huge blunder committing us to that war. We should have been an arbiter. We should have said we're not in favor of either empire. We're going to just arbitrate a peace deal and should have stayed neutral. But we didn't. We committed ourselves to the British Empire and we set up, obviously, as a result of that, with the Versailles treaty, the...

Guest: ...hurt so many people.

Host: The Second World War followed, and we, obviously, can get into the whole history of the financial years behind Hitler and his rise to power. And so it was like we're going to play Germany against the Soviets, who also got financial support from us. So it became a finance game, and that's why I say the power behind the scenes to me is the financial empire. The Rothschilds are obviously a part of that. I don't think they're the be-all and end-all of it, but they're a very important force financially. City of London is a very important force, and the Federal Reserve system, which is spawned from that central banking system of England. So that's when we talk about who's the American federal government serving. It's been serving the expansion of a debt slavery monetary system, right, because we're borrowing money every time they print money, but they don't own it. It's not constitutional money. In the constitution, gold and silver is constitutional money.

Guest: Everything else, these paper money notes, are promissory notes.

Host: That's why it's a Federal Reserve note. When you see a dollar bill, it says "Federal Reserve note," it's a promissory note promised to pay. Right. So it's all debt, and we're just racking up, as we know, what we're at 38, 40 trillion, I don't know, some unpayable amount.

Guest: It doesn't matter. I mean, exactly. It's not going to be. We have to reconfigure this.

Host: But it raises the question. If individuals can make a deal with supernatural forces to serve them in exchange for temporal power, for success in this life, money, and authority, and that's clearly true, can nations do the same? I think so. I think it's a kind of, well, yeah, I mean, again, it's like the power of belief, right, as a nation. We can go back to John Dee, for example, the magic...

Guest: Who was John Dee?

Host: John Dee was basically like the head of intelligence for Queen Elizabeth I right at the beginning of the British Empire.

Guest: Elizabeth the First.

Host: Yeah, sorry. Go back in time to the 1580s. Exactly. And Dee is the original 007. That's how he signed his signature. So Bond is actually inspired from John Dee. And he was into magic. He was working these what they call the Enochian magic, derived probably from the Book of Enoch, but he was communing with these beings, watchers, what he considered angels. He had these incantations and...

Guest: He was summoning spirits.

Host: He was working with spirits, and the theory is that the Shakespearean Tempest play is inspired from John Dee as the wizard in the story. Essentially, he made the deal for the British Empire to become the most powerful empire in the world. And it begins with the sinking of the Spanish Armada, which, as everyone knows, was a freak massive storm—begun in a tempest. A tempest that basically helped to sink their plans and their fleet. The theory is that he basically made the deal for the British Empire, but the deal requires a certain level of blood sacrifice. Some people say that we've inherited the British Empire and those demons—essentially those same deals—especially since '45, since the end of the Second World War.

Host: It is interesting if you think about it. Here you have this island nation with a pretty small population take over the entire world.

Guest: A quarter of the planet was under them.

Host: That's right. So yeah, largest empire, some ways the most amazing empire, but certainly a vast empire. How’d they do that?

Guest: Yeah, I mean it's more than guns, germs, and steel, right? I mean it's economically—the financial component is fascinating, how they were able to, obviously, with the shipping and whatnot, insurance and...

Host: They controlled the seas of the western world all the way to India, even to China, right? They were able to control the seas, and then they could basically trade. They had a certain traffic where they would take the cotton, buy the cotton cheap from slave labor in America, sell it across their empire in India, buy the tea and the opium from there from Afghanistan, which was under India at the time, and then dump the opium on the Chinese and get the silver for that. It's a pretty good trade, right? It's a pretty good deal. But the core power, you believe, came from a deal.

Guest: Well, I see the world as both a spiritual and a material reflection of each other. So what I believe is that when people understand how these workings happen—if you have an intention and you undertake a magical working that has enough belief behind it, enough energy behind it—it can manifest in physical form. This is the nature of magic. To me, there are always two paths with magic. Christ says, “Thy will be done,” which is the creator’s will. The magic of what I would say is the dark side is “my will be done.” That’s what Aleister Crowley and other people like this believe.

Host: Yes.

Guest: Crowley said he was an incarnation, a reincarnation of the guy working with John Dee in the magical ceremony. So their mentality is “love is under will.” Love is not the primordial power of creation for them. The individual ego will is more important than love.

Host: Yeah, that’s a dead end.

Guest: It’s interesting because it points to something that I think all of us feel.

Host: Which is that there's something dark about success.

Guest: It can be.

Host: There's that famous line, "Show me the fortune and I'll show you the crime."

Guest: Yeah, Balzac.

Host: Yeah. Balzac is really reason enough to learn to read French. It's just an amazingly hilarious, insightful author. Pere Goriot is one of the great novels. Anyway, yeah, Balzac, "Show me the fortune, I'll show you the crime." That resonates. And this is not to attack all rich people. I mean, we're both, I guess, by some standards, rich people. But...

Guest: Well, there's a whole other level.

Host: There's a whole, right. When you're talking dynastic people that have made fortunes selling opium to the Chinese, or selling slaves, or selling weapons, or financing wars like the Rothschilds—that's a level of crime, or pimping people like Epstein types, pimping girls and boys. That's a whole...

Guest: Picture of grand success in this world, isn't it? I mean, that's maybe the reason that Jesus says "it's harder for a rich man to get to heaven than a camel through the eye of a needle." There's something about it and maybe that something is the deal that is inevitably made with satanic forces in order to get whatever that success is.

Host: How many times...

Guest: Is that a crazy hypothesis?

Host: People tell me the Mexican cartels are doing straight black magic.

Guest: Well, they are. That's a fact.

Host: Right? And I mean, imagine, these are people that are trafficking humans. They're trafficking drugs. They're killing. They're cutting off heads. They're killing with impunity.

Guest: And not just killing, but torturing. That to me is always a sign that there's something religious going on.

Host: So, you torture others for one of two reasons. Either to elicit information. I'm going to waterboard you till you tell me where the terrorists are...

Guest: Which unfortunately, as we know, is not necessarily accurate information.

Host: No, it's not. But as a motive...

Guest: Yeah. Or you're doing it for its own sake because there's something about human suffering that brings you power.

Host: And that's when we touch pleasure...

Guest: Which is...

Host: And maybe adrenochrome...

Guest: And in certain cases...

Host: Are bumping up against the supernatural realm, right? Because why would you—if you're going to kill somebody, why would you torture them first?

Guest: But they always do.

Host: But see, I would posit it more that when are we not in the supernatural? That's the shift in consciousness that is required. The great awakening is that people have talked about, especially since COVID...

Guest: Oh no, we're having one. There's no—

Host: We are always under the eyes. We are always living a supernatural experience. We just...

Guest: We haven't thought that way. We've been trained to think of it as a material existence, and the shift now is to say no, it's...

Host: Everything we do has supernatural ramification because it's always a choice between serving a higher self, let's call it, and serving ego. That's to me the eternal battle. Every choice we make, it all counts. Obviously, small decisions probably won't have the greater impact that a bigger decision will. But if we can shift our consciousness to start realizing how I behave at every moment, is it aligned with my higher version of self or not? This is what we have to do to achieve a better world. If we want to shift into a better reality, then that falls upon us to say, am I following my heart? Am I listening to my heart? Am I listening to intuition? Am I being moral and good in this moment? I don't think that's the whole point. None of us are perfect, but the whole point of the Christ model is it's a model for us. This is the way of perfection. Listen to the words, try to imitate the Christ, and I think we would have a much healthier reality. Jesus is really clear that every word you utter, every word will be used to judge you.

Guest: Like every word matters.

Host: Exactly.

Guest: It's all life force. It begins with thought. That's why even the Buddhists, the ancient religions, they always write: thought, work on your thoughts to then correct your speech to then change your actions. So it all builds.

Host: It's in that exact same passage where he says the evil heart produces evil actions.

Guest: Yeah. No, it's so right.

Host: So that brings us to the United States, which is the heir to the British Empire. If the British Empire was the product of this deal that John Dee made to bring the Tempest to destroy the Spanish Armada, launch Britain into control of the West, and then that control ends in 1945 with the dropping of the atom bombs... so where does that put the United States government? We've been subsumed by the New World Order ideology for a long time now. The New World Order ideology came out of the British Empire. It wasn't a conspiracy theory. It was their own language. I went back when I was in my history thesis at college and I was reading some of the minutes of these conferences. They kept saying "new world order." It was their own language. They wanted to basically continue the empire in a more informal way because they realized the empire was getting a lot of flack. They couldn't sustain it militarily. They didn't have the manpower. They wanted to bring America in. Cecil Rhodes, who was the great imperialist of South Africa, Rhodesia, getting the diamond mines set up and the gold mines and whatnot—his benefactor was Lord Rothschild—and Cecil Rhodes was in his will saying we want to reclaim the holy lands and we want to bring America back within the empire. So that was the agenda from the end of the 19th century. Bringing America to be the military might of the western financial system. That takes place clearly between World War I and World War II. As you said, we then take over for the British Empire all of its former colonies and the French colonies, including Vietnam. Why do we end up in the Vietnam War? It's a French colony.

Guest: Indochina.

Host: Yeah, Indochina. Why do we take on Turkey and Greece to defend against the Soviets? That's all the British imperial realm. The Middle East, again, the French and British carved up the Middle East. All these countries are essentially creations of the British and the French.

Guest: So we inherit the empire and basically ally with this idea of the war, the world game. Russia had been the enemy of the British; they became our enemy. And that's a whole complicated issue, but essentially, partly it's dynastic families wanting the wealth of the others. That's perhaps why they couped the Tsar, to get their fortune and get them out of power and put the Soviets in. Partly as an experiment, partly as a way to keep Russia separated from the Western world, to create an enemy going forward. Because as we know, we backed Hitler at the beginning to go against Russia. That was the whole deal: like you're going to fight the Russians. Kind of like we backed Iraq to fight the Iranians in the 80s. It's the old divide and conquer technique. So yeah, Russia had been the British enemy. We inherited that. And then we basically bought into the new world order ideology. That's why we kept going into this globalist mentality for decades, of committing ourselves.

Host: But there's a supernatural element too. It seems obvious. It was only in the last year, after a lifetime of living next to it, that I realized the Pentagon is in the shape of a pentagram.

Guest: Yes. Yes.

Host: Why of all potential architectural designs would you put your military headquarters in a pentagram? Again, the stars that soldiers wear, if you've seen movies or whatnot, the pentagram is a very common image for protection. There's an invocation of protection through it. And then there's also the inverted pentagram, which is often times used for sacrifice. You'll see again in films, where they'll put the pentagram on the floor and within a circle, and then they'll do a ritual sacrifice within it.

Guest: Well, it's the central image of Satanism.

Host: Yeah, exactly. The inverted horns. It's the inversion of the pentagram. So again, it can be used...

Guest: The symbolism I notice in our culture, for some reason, people are waking up. But we went through this period where for all of history, symbols really matter. They really matter. In a lot of the world they still matter. And then in the West for the last 80 years, symbols are just null and void. Your average person is not allowed to notice the symbolism in anything.

Host: No, we have to...

Guest: Poetry dies, metaphor dies.

Host: Exactly. The spiritual life withers, and we just don't notice that. Our military is headquartered in a building called the Pentagon. And by the way, I learned this from you at breakfast this morning. I have no idea what it means, but I was amazed to learn that the cornerstone of the Pentagon was laid on September 11th, 1941, 60 years to the day that Flight 77 was flown into it. 77 is a magical number, too. So again, I think of these events as mass rituals.

Guest: I mean, I just learned this this morning eating my omelette. So I haven't thought about it at all, but that’s kind of the point I’m making. I heard that plane. I was close enough to hear the plane or whatever. I heard that impact of something.

Host: Well, we never saw the video, right?

Guest: Never. I’m aware. The whole thing is bizarre, but...

Host: I’m only making the point that I was very aware that it happened. I had a friend on that plane, et cetera, et cetera.

Guest: Why am I now, 25 years later, for the first time, learning that the Pentagon cornerstone was laid on September 11th, 1941? Like you’d think in the coverage of it, they’d be like, “Hey, this is kind of...” Yeah, the 60th anniversary. You’d think so, right?

Host: I never heard that. Did you know that? Yeah, I’d read about it, but at the time was that like on World News Tonight? I mean, I was as clueless at the time when it happened. I just thought, look, here’s all I knew about 9/11 was that nothing made sense because I was in Somaliland in the summer in July and we got notices from the State Department faxes saying, “Be careful to all foreign nationals, all American nationals abroad.” There was basically a rumor around about a terrorist plot. So be on high alert.

Guest: I was in Maine that summer and they didn’t send us any notice at all.

Host: No, I guess I should have been in Somaliland. So I mean, we already were like, oh, it’s interesting that we got the notice that obviously some intel, something’s coming across intel channels to say that. And I’m not sure if anyone ever reported on that in the investigation of the intelligence labs, but again, I just never believed the official story, and the more I looked at it, the more it just didn’t add up. You know, the takedown of the towers, structurally speaking, you have the plane hit the Empire State Building back in ’46. Remember that?

Guest: Yeah, of course. You know, it was a military plane at the time and...

Host: They hit a bomber in a collapse.

Guest: Well, Donald Trump is on tape on the morning of 9/11 saying, “I don’t know. How could that have happened? I know those buildings well. I was there when they were built in the early ’70s and the steel in those things is stronger than any building in New York.” And there’s no way.

Host: But now you think about the nature of ritual and what was created was a holocaust, which is literally a mass burning. This is—I don't know if you remember the movie called The Wicker Man.

Guest: The Wicker Man.

Host: It was a film about these pagan Satanists, right? Who do a ritual around one of the equinoxes. I think it was like a summer solstice. They have this guy in this town realizing that these guys are witches. And all of a sudden he finds himself inside of this massive wicker man being burned alive. And it's played out every summer, by the way, in a festival called Burning Man here in Nevada.

4. Ritual and Reality

Host: I guess, right? In the desert, the Burning Man ritual. The burning of the man annually. So these are ritual things that people partake in without understanding what they’re giving their energy to.

Guest: That’s right. That’s exactly right. So up until the Second World War, it would have been obvious to every Western man that life revolves around ritual, and that ritual describes to us concepts that our brains are not capable of fully grasping.

Host: The communion in Christianity — it’s like, there’s a great debate over exactly what that is, but it’s the center of the practice of the religion, and it doesn’t make any sense from a scientific point of view. You’re ingesting the flesh and blood of Jesus. Like what?

Guest: But to Christians, again, it’s the Holy Eucharist.

Guest: And that makes sense to people because there’s no other way to describe the things that are of this life. They’re that profound. But our understanding of how central ritual is to life has just been stripped from us completely. So we totally miss it. We don’t even know that the Pentagon gets hit on the 60th anniversary of the beginning of its construction. That’s so — well, you think about the nature of — well, first of all, television has disrupted ritual cycles, the cycles of our energy, of going down with the sunset, coming in, sitting around the earth, telling stories, listening to the spirit, being more connected to the spiritual world. Now the spiritual world does come in through television; it’s just not the way we imagine it because we think this is something different, but it’s all going into our psyche. The brain is processing it the same way — it’s processing and taking this information just as it would reality. So it’s definitely affecting the way we interface with reality.

Host: Yes. And this goes back to what we were talking about, the power of the magic of media. People that are storytelling — some are practicing darkness, others are practicing light, and there are those that are just unaware, unconsciously perpetuating things. But there does seem to be something very dark in Hollywood, and it’s like a subversion. You grew up there. So did you sense that?

Guest: What I sense with Hollywood is — let’s be clear — there’s definitely a Babylonian quality to it , right? There’s definitely debauchery. Everyone knew Harvey Weinstein was a monster. Not just with women — he was a monster with business, of course. I knew him. I knew that. Everyone knew that he was, but he was just accepted. It’s just like the casting couch. It’s just accepted. This is the way things are. Epstein — I’m sure a lot of people knew what Epstein was. I never heard about him.

Guest: Before 2016, 2017, 2018, back in that time frame. But I'm sure a lot of people that were around him just knew, oh yeah, he's into this or he's into that because it's people talk, right? But it's amazing how unless you're part of those circles, you don't really know what's going on. And that's why to this day people will say, "Well, JFK, the assassination, it must, they couldn't have kept the secret." I'm like, people in the know have talked, but you're just not in the know because it hasn't been perpetuated through media. So unless it gets perpetuated through media, we don't hear about it and we don't think it exists.

Yeah. I mean, what you just said is the truest thing that I didn't understand until later in life, even though I spent my whole life in the media. The idea that if it's more than two people, no one can keep a secret. Well, none of these secrets have been kept. They're all out there. I've heard a lot of this stuff a million times. I just discounted it and it was not part of the prevailing story we were told. So I just didn't think it was real.

Host: Wasn't it Cardi B? What's her name? One of these rappers just came out talking about all this stuff in the Epstein thing, they're eating. She said in the music industry they're eating babies and drinking blood. Y'all, which rapper was it? Was it Cardi or?

Guest: I don't know. Every week there's a new rapper revealing the truth, but no one takes them seriously because they're rappers.

Host: Yeah. Exactly. But she said something to this effect. And Mariah Carey's sister said that when she was a kid, she grew up, she talked about it before she died. Mariah Carey's sister, it's in the "Best Kept Secret" documentary series that I put out. But basically she said she grew up with things that were done that were indescribably horrible, like you can't fathom. And she died a few years after that. But she came out saying it. People will sometimes come out and say things and it'll be like a blip. And I think this is my way of thinking: more like if in the middle of the night I see something fly across the sky, which I've done, driving in Beverly Hills driving home at like 2:00 in the morning. I saw a craft fly overhead. Not so fast. It was more like... it was almost I don't want to say like it almost would be like an advanced version of a stealth bomber. It wasn't a stealth bomber, but it was a craft that was moving very fast, low to the ground, right over Beverly Hills. So, I look at that and go, "Okay, I've just glimpsed reality." Someone else might go, "That's just crazy. I'm just going to ignore that."

Guest: So to me, I'm like, "Okay, this is what's really going on. I want to look over here now." And that's just the way that I see things. And other people will just be like, I once saw a UFO, but you know what? That's just so crazy. I'm

Host: Just going to go back to the mundane world.

Guest: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. But big picture of people trying to understand — not simply are they eating babies, but why would someone do something like that?

Host: Yeah. Well,

Guest: you get to the nature of the deal that every person faces. I think the potential which is the same as the temptation of Jesus. “Bow down before me and all this will be yours.”

Guest: But in exchange for whatever you're getting, bloodshed

Guest: is the cost.

Guest: Because the pravity. It's like once you've once you've it's like the dog that's tasted blood, right? It's the can't go back. You've crossed a threshold. You've crossed a barrier that we're not supposed to cross, right? “Thou shalt not kill.” Okay. Well, if you do, you're probably going to have remorse. If you do it just — especially just for defense purposes — you're still probably going to have some level of remorse. I know sociopaths don't.

Host: No, that's right.

Guest: So there's a whole other caliber of psychology and maybe demon possession there, but as humans, we would have remorse. But once you've gone back, you can't take that back, can you? You've stained your soul. That's something that you can't — you can steal something and make amends. You can — all crime is theft, but there's different degrees of theft, right? You can steal people's time, you can steal their energy, you can steal belongings, but if you steal life, there's no — how do you return that?

Host: There's no restitution. I'm extrapolating out to the scale of empire here and trying to understand why empires tend to commit themselves to war even when they don't get anything out of it.

Guest: And I —

Host: Someone's getting out of it, I mean.

Guest: I just wonder though if the cost of staying on top isn't killing people just by its nature.

Host: Yeah. Well, and again, I mean, different arguments. You go back to like — what was the point of Vietnam? If Vietnam fell to the communists, like what the heck does that have to do with anything?

Guest: What's the point of the Russia Ukraine war? Why would you want to keep that going?

Host: The only thing that you're getting out of that is weapons testing and money transfers and all that stuff, but ultimately what you're getting is millions of dead people.

Guest: Yes. Blood.

Host: Maybe that's the point. Maybe it is blood sacrifice.

Guest: Right. Right. To a degree. I think that from a higher perspective there does seem to be truth to that. And I think — look, this is realm of mind, right? We've since the fall of Adam and Eve we fell into mind. So before this there was order, there was perfect — it was perfectly guided, let's say. And then we fell. The story is not just Adam and Eve; it's Atlantis, it's all these things, right? They fell into the mind.

Host: What does that mean — the mind?

Guest: Everything we experience is the mind. We don't know anything outside of our own minds, right?

Host: So before the fall, we existed?

Guest: Well, I mean, presumably if we trusted like the Lord basically just had perfected —

Guest: And ordered everything. We didn't have choice. We didn't have free will. We didn't have mind. We didn't have anything to mirror. We saw ourselves for the first time. The mind is like a mirror. Self-awareness. I am separate from you. If everything before that was just oneness, right? It was just, you just knew you were you, you could be. It’s kind of like an angelic order, let’s say.

Host: I mean, again, we’re making assumptions here, but essentially what we know is that with self-awareness comes this idea of separation. And so, we are in a realm of mind where everything gets mirrored in some way. Every thought has to do with manifest, comes separation. And that is, yeah, the illusion of separation. Ultimately I believe that we’re all from the same oneness and I believe it’s God’s universe. So there’s really nothing to be afraid of, right, because we’re all if we choose, we can go, we can ascend higher. We can go back to the light. But there’s no — they say the illusion of separation is that it’s just an illusion. If our ego feels separate, our ego feels like I’m me, this is my body. This is my name. This is what I’ve done. So that’s why I say it’s a battle between ego and higher self. Higher self is like no, we’re just instruments of the creator. I can let go of ego now. I don’t have to feel like anything belongs to me. Anything I do is not mine. Glory to the creator. We’re just instruments here. We’re just playing our roles. And yes,

Guest: Hopefully this is well, I believe this is all for our evolution in understanding and recognizing, hopefully developing more empathy, more compassion, more love. That should be, I think, our goal on this planet. But yeah, in the realm of mind, mind has to go somewhere. So if I have hateful thoughts, it has to go somewhere. Does it project? How does it? As we know, like if I have hateful thoughts or angry thoughts, it has to, it’s going to be the way I treat my children, my loved ones, my family, my friends. It’s going to go somewhere. It’s going to go into war. It’s going to manifest somewhere.

Host: Right, and that’s where we are still in a place of strong polarity, right? Everything is being as light as it is as dark as it is in this realm, so it has that energy has to go into war until we clean up our thoughts and stop hating each other. Until then, we’re going to have war. But there’s also a sense in which bloodshed, war, violence, killing is the food that keeps the dark energy.

Guest: Yeah. But it starts with us. Like that’s the whole — that’s why I just say the good news is they don’t have any power unless we give it to them. If we give them power, if we give them attention, if we give them energy, if we feed them our fear, that’s what Christ was saying. Let go of the fear. Just have faith. Let faith replace the fear. And that was what I had to go through in my, you know, 2

Guest: Three-year journey of having these dark experiences and being haunted by things that were energetically tangible in my reality. I was like, okay, I surrender. I surrender to the higher power. I have faith, so you can’t have my soul because it doesn’t belong to you. And I think that’s the point. If every one of us just in our own lives takes inventory, okay, we have fears. It’s natural. Some fears are deep and paranoid, others are just existential. There’s a predator, there’s a threat. But if we can face our fears, own our fears, and find deeper faith, we will create a better reality because the dark will have less food. It’s our choice.

Does it feel like some social media are designed to inspire fear and hate? Of course, because it’s being perpetuated through people that are unconscious. I would say I don’t think there’s that many dark sorcerers in the world. I think there are a few. I think there are definitely some people that commune and know what they’re doing, ritualistically. But I think most people are just unconscious and they’re just seeking worldly delight, worldly temptation, worldly power.

Host: Yes. Host: Right.

Guest: And they’re just unconsciously not sure why, but they’re just like, “Well, that seems safe.” I don’t want to lose what I have. I want to maintain and preserve, but you can’t. This world is ephemeral. It’s passing, right? We know this. It’s the way it’s designed. We’re supposed to be able to let go and again commune with a higher power, and that’s the greater energy. And that actually was what really preserves you. That’s when you get to that place of what the saints and people like that can glow and can actually emit light, right? All these examples of what Christ is. This is where we’re supposed to imitate, to try to bring more light into the world. And so, if people are not there, but they’re putting out these things, they’re just reflecting themselves. So a lot of these, going back to Hollywood, a lot of these creators are just at that level. Their consciousness is at that level. Their consciousness is full of, you name it, perversion, negativity, angst, fear. So they’re perpetuating that. They’re not coming from a higher modality. They’re not coming from a higher place. But it’s just that they can only reflect what they are.

Host: Do you think it’s more obvious in Hollywood than in other places?

Guest: Power centers. I mean there’s a lot of power centers. London is a power center. Hollywood’s a power center. New York is a power center. I mean every city is like a hub because how much energy gets, how do you say, there’s so many more people there. There’s so much more attention. But obviously Hollywood is this magnifier of consciousness. And so I think that wherever the consciousness goes, even collectively you could say Hollywood shifts accordingly. I don’t think Hollywood itself is like they’re sitting…

Guest: They're going like this is the way it is. It's like their barometer of where consciousness is. And so, how do you explain it? It's almost like reflecting each other. They put out darkness. People want that. They feed into it. That's where the collective is. The collective wants to experience this. They want to go into darkness. They want to go into experience the darkness. Okay.

Host: When you get to a certain point, you wake up. You say, "I'm tired of the nightmare." And I think that's where we are. That's what the awakening means. It's like people saying, "Okay, you know what? Enough of the nightmare. Let's change the story." And people are rejecting Hollywood accordingly, saying, "Yeah, unless you guys shift the narratives, we're not going to watch your content anymore. The more we shift, the more Hollywood will shift." So it's a dance. Hollywood cannot survive without the audience. You cannot — drug dealers cannot survive without the drug addicts. We collectively have to shift our consciousness and everything will change.

Guest: I believe that. I notice it with AI. Most people, including, I think, the people who are creating AI, aren't really exactly sure what it's going to be.

Guest: What the effects are going to be, but the only publicity about AI that's coming out of the developers of AI is negative and terrifying.

Guest: There's been — I've noticed since this for the last three or four years, there's been no real effort to explain to you or me or anyone how this is going to be great for us. Mhm. And a lot of effort put into telling us this is going to end everything that we love, including human autonomy, our jobs, our economy. It'll basically be a slave state run by machines. That's what they're telling us. The people who are making it are telling us that. And so my instinct is they're trying to terrify us for some reason. And it may just be because that feeds the dark spiritual powers that are creating it. Yeah, I think AI is just like everything. It's just both dark and light. It's like the internet, right? You can find the darkest things out there. You can find great information, right? You can find the books of the world if you want to read them.

Host: You know.

Guest: It was literally like terrorizing the public.

Host: Exactly.

Guest: It was terror for everybody, the American public, the broad. So that era was like — you know — this shift in consciousness was — again — a pretty dark phase. I think now we are almost like operating.

Guest: In different realities simultaneously, which is kind of cool. I think it's almost... I feel more like choose your adventure. What do you want to do with technology? What do you want to do with the world that you're in? And just trust that this is all like for our evolution as souls. To return to basically be reminded of the light, to return to the light ultimately to reascend. I hope in time. I think that would be the goal, right? Is to return to a state of more closeness to God. That's — but you have to be separated to want to go back. Right.

Host: A lot of people are looking forward to going back right now all of a sudden. So we're told that there's going to be some kind of disclosure about UAPs, UFOs by the federal government. What are UFOs?

Guest: So I think we have reverse engineer technology that's been talked about for a long time. Certainly like Roswell is a famous incident. From what my understanding of it, something did crash and there was a huge military response and then the idea of a weather balloon and then they changed the story twice. It was originally like yeah, weather balloon, and then it was like some other thing. They basically had the guy that was there initially. I can't remember the name. He was a military intel guy. He took it back to like his family, a piece of the metal, and it was like very strong but at the same time it was like you could actually like slightly bend it but it would come back, and it was unlike any metal they'd ever seen. So this was described by him and then his son, but he was basically forced to take the photo, the famous photo. I think his name is Marcel. He had the famous photo of like holding the weather balloon and to say like it was just a weather balloon, and like he basically was forced to take that picture. I think since that time we've been reverse engineering. I've talked to way too many people who are part of black programs or have seen, we have a secret space program. The U.S. Space Force is older than Trump. Like they basically brought it from the hidden to the more public side now. But for example, I talked to Dr. Fred Bell. Do you remember, do you know him at all? Fred Bell was a very famous guy in the alien the UFO community because he had worked with the government and he was also writing books about like alien technology and consciousness and things like this quantum physics. Brilliant guy. So we interviewed him for conspiracy theory, the show I used to do with Jesse Ventura, and he was talking about mind war, like using frequency for like affecting people's thoughts and being able to affect people at a distance, right, through various technologies. But off the record, he was like, "I shouldn't tell you guys this because my CIA handler would not be happy with me, but I've been to"

One: One of these underground military facilities. And he’s like, “I’ve even met what you would call a gray alien.” He’s like, “I shook hands with one.” And he’s like, “They’re down there in these facilities. We have these joint partnerships.” Within 24 hours of that conversation, off the record, he was dead. He died in his hotel room before he could leave Minnesota where he was.

Two: After your interview.

One: Doing the interview. Yeah. Yeah. He died of a heart attack.

Two: A lot of people involved in the space program in a kind of spooky science connected to the federal government have died or disappeared recently.

Two: Like a lot. It’s like 11 that they’ve confirmed missing or dead.

One: Yeah, it seems like a lot.

Two: Nuclear. Yeah. From everything from fusion programs to NASA scientists. Certainly in the age of disclosure which we’ve been living through the last few years, it’s more curious. At first I thought people were suspecting the Chinese. But do you remember? Look, we still never got an answer to those drones.

One: No, New Jersey. Last year they were all over, not just Jersey, they were all over from the eastern seaboard, right, Virginia, I mean multiple states. I mean you get this kind of stuff all the time, these anomalies.

Two: I actually asked about that because Trump was going to disclose what it was. Remember during the campaign he said, “I’m going to get to the bottom of this,” and then he said, “Ah, it’s not a big deal.” And I asked, I got, “It’s not a big deal.”

One: Epstein’s not a big deal.

Two: Not a big deal.

One: But what were…

Two: Listen, I look at this world. I mean, you ever see those paintings, some of those old paintings, and you see these little drone looking

One: things in them.

Two: I just look at this world like we are being observed. The watchers,

One: they’re again dark and light. They’re observing this experiment of the fall, right? We’ve fallen, but God is always watching. God’s permitting. And there are beings that are interested in our genetics, that’s for sure. The eugenics thing is ancient.

Two: Why are eugenics an ancient thing?

One: Well, we talked about it, the idea of creating humans, some of which were of royal bloodline or from deities and others are just more like

Two: workers. I think it’s ancient. I mean, isn’t it curious the different races? Where do we all come from one race and we become darker skinned, lighter? Or are we actually different bloodlines? They’re different blood types. So is it just evolutionary or is there something else going on in terms of genetics? I think genetics connects to consciousness because as we know the eugenics interest is extreme. By the way, we gave birth to Hitler because the eugenics conferences were here first. They were British-American eugenics conferences and a lot of them were racist. Absolutely. But the interest in the idea that consciousness, as we talked about, if the brain and the like is a receiver, then of

Guest: Of course, different genetics are going to receive information differently. The body, how we experience reality is through this body. So isn’t it if we believe in souls and the journey that we go through in our life, our body is very connected to that experience. So of course there’s a fascination with how much it is contingent on our genetic makeup and our propensities. For example, for about 50 years in the United States, it was basically not allowed for people to mention any of this in public because it was Hitler stuff or whatever they said about it.

Host: They changed the name.

Host: They called it, they changed it from eugenics to… what’s the Cold Spring Harbor? They’re doing at Cold Spring Harbor basically the same research. It’s just genetic… what’s the term for it anyway? They just call it genetic research now, and like bio, they research biotech, I think we call it.

Guest: Yeah, biotech and things like this. But it’s the same principles, not maybe not based in the same racism, but some of it’s, I’m sure some of these people are still racist like Epstein, who was called everybody that wasn’t Jewish. Right, I mean some of these guys are still racist.

Host: But yeah, I mean they just changed the name. It’s just interesting that even as the public has been absolutely banned from talking about this stuff, the people in charge are very fixated on genetics.

Host: Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. That doesn’t surprise you.

Guest: Why should it? I mean, what again, if this vehicle, it’s pretty interesting technology. I mean, the body’s incredible technology. That’s what freaked me out so much during COVID was like the whole mRNA delivery system, right, that they were trying to inject us with. And as a lot of people were warning that mRNA technology can start to affect your genome and might be passed on to your children.

Host: I think it’s been confirmed now.

Guest: Right? So it’s pretty scary stuff that they were just mass injecting…

Host: Into hundreds of millions of people.

Guest: But then and now we know that it can affect your DNA.

Host: I think that’s beyond dispute.

Guest: But I haven’t read any follow‑up and like okay, you’re changing human beings generationally. What are the likely effects of this? And that’s the transhuman agenda. So transhumanism, transhumanism you could say is the evolution of eugenics to the place where a lot of these elites want to biologically re‑engineer the human, and arguably they want to get us to a place where they can merge us with the AI, the machine consciousness, to make us, well you could say like an H. G. Wells type of scenario, right? You have the elite, who and some of whom love the idea of like Elon Musk, connect me to the machine, connect me to the computer so that I can be smarter, right? And then, arguably those that are more mundane will either not have the ability or they’ll be connected in a way that they can be more controlled. Is this what we’re going towards? A cyborg type of future.

Host: Seems clear, right? It’s certainly feasible. I don’t think in the next 5 years but probably…

Host: 20, 30 years and beyond you could see a whole new humanity. What do you think the point of the COVID exercise was?

Guest: Multi-layered. They wanted — I mean, it seemed that they wanted to shut down the world and print money en masse. They knew they didn't have a war; to do it right without a great war, they needed some kind of conflict. This exercise was a way of, I think, testing consciousness to see how pliable and compliant people are. And obviously, it was, like I said, frightening just to see your friends and neighbors just becoming like the Borg in Star Trek — just obey, wear your mask, do not question. If you question, you're crazy, you're dangerous, you know, you should be. At some point they were talking about moving people to concentration camps or quarantine camps. They were talking about digital tracking. I don't think they achieved fully what they could have, or what if the dark side had won, let's say prevailed? We could have — you kidding me? — we could have been what Chomsky said: those of us that were unvaccinated could have been pushed out of society. They could have created a total digital verification of how many shots you've had and if you obeyed or not. I mean, the social credit system of a communist society — they could have gone all the way. I don't think they won that battle, but I think it was a big test to see where our human consciousness was.

Host: I notice you didn't mention public health as one of the reasons for that campaign.

Guest: Shifting our? Which aspect?

Host: Well, the inherent threat of the virus — that didn't play any role in this?

Guest: The virus was a perfect virus insofar as it was very contagious, and I think we all got exposed to it, and I think the virus does have long-term effects that we should work to clean out. But things like ivermectin and others can help us with cleaning that out of our system. But it wasn’t like a particularly deadly virus. No, I mean, just look at the numbers. It was deadly if you had two plus comorbidities and you were over 70 years old. Yeah, that was dangerous. But anyone who was paying attention — we knew about ivermectin, we knew about hydroxychloroquine, vitamin C, zinc. I mean, just health protocols — being in the sun, fresh air, all the things you would normally think would be healthy,

Host: You know, keeping your weight normal.

Host: So, last question. So many things are happening at once right now. One thing I've noticed during this conversation is you seem completely unsurprised, unphased by all these crazy things going on because you've just seen the world through this vantage for so long that it doesn't surprise you. Is that fair?

Guest: Yeah. I think that when you've been growing up seeing conspiracy reality, which I saw since I was like six, seven years old and my dad made JFK. You don't — I don't try to assume anything because I'm not in a position of one of the elites that's apparently making these types of decisions, right? So, but you see a UFO and you

Host: Say I’m looking not at an anomaly but at reality.

Guest: Yes.

Guest: Yeah, so that’s a different way of looking at the world, and probably a better one. But given that worldview, you see now the unresolved war in Ukraine, this new war in Iran, which seems like it is already a global war. Who knows?

Host: The promise of UAP disclosure, the rise of these terrifying dystopian technologies, mass surveillance, AI —

Host: All happening in like a 5‑year span.

Host: What is all of this? They’re clearly connected phenomena.

Guest: They’re definitely connected phenomena. Any one of these things would have been enough to fry my 30‑year‑old brain if these had happened in 1999.

Guest: I guess it was well, look, the NATO war against Serbia was relatively isolated, but that region of the Balkans, that region was just devastated by that era. I keep emphasizing to people, look, the world ended many many times already. I think if we lived through World War II, can you imagine the devastation of that time period? I mean, maybe 100 million dead. The entire world engaged at some level of the conflict. I think that we have to get back to kind of primary principles of okay, is it really as bad as the mind might want it to believe and the fear wants us to believe?

Host: Yes.

Guest: So I don’t like to give into those fear narratives. I truly believe that the light is prevailing. People are waking up every time something is occurring. We’re in a time now where, thanks to the social media component, as much as we can say, yeah, there are banal things, there are degrading things, there are things that maybe take us out of ourselves or into our lower self, there’s also so much revelation coming at the same time, right? So we can have these conversations now that listen, I couldn’t talk about the pedophilia cannibalism stuff back in the 2000s when I first found out about it because I was reading about the Franklin scandal and the Franklin cover‑up and things like this, right? This was back in the ’80s and ’90s that they were the trafficking ring. Remember…

Host: Right, in Franklin, and it had to do with Larry King, who was very high up in the Republican National Committee. Stories like this that I knew about.

Guest: A different Larry King.

Host: Yeah, a different Larry King. Exactly. The black Larry King, not the CNN Larry King.

Guest: I couldn’t talk about these things publicly, but gradually I’ve seen consciousness awakening. My journey has been so interesting in that regard. Like I was doing conspiracy theory with Jesse Murer back when it was shut down because we were asking all the right questions apparently, but the network True TV shut us down because he had challenged… I think it was because of the episode that he did about FEMA camps maybe. Was that like he triggered something?

Host: Yeah. Yeah, but there…

Guest: There were some things he was, we touched upon that were like, “Okay, the show is cancelled.” So nowadays, if he’d wanted to, we could have shifted it to a TikTok channel or something. We could have continued it.

Host: All these conversations that we were having about the Skinwalker Ranch. Now there’s shows on Netflix about Skinwalker Ranch.

Guest: The UAP stuff coming out, the hybrid programs, the reverse engineering being discussed in Congress. So I feel like the awakening is more important than the events themselves. The events themselves — because look, this is a reality where unfortunately, yes, it’s painful, it’s full of suffering. There’s sorrow. Our loved ones are going to die one way or another. Everything’s going to pass in this world, right? So what matters is: where are we awakening to the reality? Are we seeing the spiritual forces that are at work? And if we can again choose light instead of darkness, I do believe we can create a better reality. But it starts with awakening and realization. Not “we’re going to put this in the corner, we’re not going to discuss the pedophilia.” No, that’s being discussed openly now. “We’re not going to discuss the rape and murder and cannibalization of kids.” No, we’re going to discuss that because by becoming aware of it now, we can get to a place of: okay, all of this somehow exists in our reality. Let’s choose a better version of reality, right? Where this doesn’t happen as prevalently, if at all.

Host: So the awakening is worth the suffering that leads to it.

Guest: It’s the only way. It’s the only way to awaken is to suffer. It’s what Buddha — even Buddha sees suffering in the world. He says, “I want to understand what’s causing this. Get to the heart.” He wants to awaken, right? He wants to create a more compassionate reality, even though he knows that suffering will still exist. So it doesn’t have to be as evil as cannibalizing people and murdering women and children and all these horrible things, but there will still be suffering in our reality at this point of human experience, right? We’re still going to suffer illness and old age and death, until God decides that we enter a more golden age.

Host: Sean Stone, thank you very much. It’s a pleasure.

Read online: https://junifye.publifye.pro/b7032946-06f6-40df-9094-732cf1094c30.html
Made with Junifye.